Curse

Mrscoombes · Sep 01, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

First of all, i'd like to say I am not getting at Anet in any way or accusing them of being racially insensitive in any way. K now I have that cleared up:

With that pvp weekend for paragon+dervish tests, my friend got quite upset over the dervish matter. He is foreign and he has a very strong sense of family. Now he does loads of research on his ancestors...and 2 of which happened to be Dervish Warriors who fought the brits back when we controlled a heck of a lot of the planet. Yes, dervishes were real fighters. They were known as whirling dervishes by the brits, whether this was a racial insult or not i don't know. My friend found it quite insulting however, when he saw a 'Whirling Dervish' on the premade builds.

He kept on mumbling 'They dont know what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO its like...' and so on. I can't really blame him: would you like loads and loads of boys+girls+adults sitting at a computer, happily playing away killing and being killed by these war heroes, who just happened to remind you strikingly of your ancestors?

I was just wondering if Arenanet could maybe make less obvious racial hints, I know its lore and such but I definately know my friend wasn't the only one who got pissed off by it. I've managed to convince him to carry on playing GW but he isnt buying nightfall and wont even mention anything to do with it...

>_<

Edit: BUGGER the title was supposed to say 'Racial matters' I remind you again, I am not accusing anyone of being racist in any way at all.

Zinger314 · Sep 01, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

That's definately not racist. (or racial)

I don't see how it's offensive, really.

So your friend is upset that Dervish are used to fight? I don't get it.

MSecorsky · Sep 01, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Remind your friend that GW is flavored by events in our history, not based upon them. There's a huge difference. Every class has some flavor somewhere in lore and history... be it monks (which still exist), elementalists (based on legendary wizards), mesmers (names for Mesmer, who I recall is the father of hypnosis) etc.

It's only a game, it isn't based on real life, although real life influences what we see and understand.

Red · Sep 01, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrscoombes

would you like loads and loads of boys+girls+adults sitting at a computer, happily playing away killing and being killed by these war heroes, who just happened to remind you strikingly of your ancestors?

OMG. Warcraft has all teh European medieval stuff in it! Kill!

Kill Call of Duty! And every other WWII game made, beacuse I had a grandpa who served in the war! Do you know what it's like to see people playing a game when he lived through the real thing?!

Sid Meier's Civilization is COMPLETELY horrible, too! The more verisons they make, the more histories they desecrate with their 'game'!

And please take every game about Japanese Samuari off the market, too. Can you imagine how many Japanese families we're offending?!

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Your post hurts me in ways I can not describe.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I find this thread painfully amusing, does that make me a bad person?

Inde · Sep 01, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

I don't know if this thread can stay open because I'm pretty sure it's going to be over run, but I have to say that it is indeed enlightening. To be honest I had no idea that there even was a Dervish history. I thought it was a clever name by the ArenaNet staff so to find out it has historical meaning is something interesting.

And from Wiki:

Quote:

The Mevlevi Order or the Mevleviye are a Sufi order founded by the followers of Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi in 1273 in Konya, in present day Turkey. They are also known as the Whirling Dervishes due to their famous practice of whirling as a form of dhikr (remembrance of Allah). Dervishes are members of Sufi ascetic religious Tarika or "confraternities", known for their extreme poverty and austerity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirling_dervish

I don't see anything being insulting about the term "whirling dervish" though.

SirErnieMacGloop · Sep 01, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I think its a case of lack of forsight on Anet's part or them just not thinking it would affect enough players in a negative way.

I think this is a double standard:
'The Panda' - because of laws regarding the panda in China, we don't get any panda's as pets or enemies.
regardless of French laws banning nazi paraphenalia the Korean symbol which is identical to the swastika is still allowed. (I've seen this guild tag on toons that were spouting racial slurs)

I think it all boils down to the fact that A-net is owned by NC-soft (a Korean company), so if its ok there its ok everywhere, if its not ok there its not ok everywhere.

On a note: the dhikr is a prayer-like observance of Allah, having a fighting 'Whirling Dervish' would be anethma to the Qur'an.

Across The Battle · Sep 01, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Courtesy of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish

Figured that might be of some help, although it doesn't tell much.

Err, Inde beat me to it I think, damn Indes

SirErnie: The swastika is accually a symbol of hope in many cultures. Read up on it...We can't say our perception of something is absolutely correct.

The Herbalizer · Sep 01, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Maybe I should cry racism whenever British people are killed in a game. OMG stategy games are sooo racist as different countries are fighting each other O.o Your friend needs to grow up. Its a game, its not real life. Wow they based a character on a group of people in real life. Wow that is just sooo racist.

All those WWII games are really offensive to all my family members who died in the war. I think I will boycott them and cry.

Guild Wars is not racist. Dervish characters are not racist. Maybe all Christians should be upset monks fight in Guild Wars. If your friend is so easily offended his life must be really miserable.

Inde · Sep 01, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Also found this:

http://www.gregangelo.com/define.htm

"Whirling Dervish (wurl-ing dur-vish) n. 1. A mystical
dancer who stands between the material and cosmic
worlds. His dance is part of a sacred ceremony
in which the dervish rotates in a precise rhythm.
He represents the earth revolving on its axis while
orbiting the sun. The purpose of the ritual whirling
is for the dervish to empty himself of all distracting
thoughts, placing him in trance; released from
his body he conquers dizziness."

lishi · Sep 01, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish

now now , someone is not saying the truth.

Wikipedia or your friend source.

Wikipedia(and other internet source i found using google) says dervish are mendicant ascetic.

Whirling dervish are a kind of performer who perform a kind of dance

http://www.dankphotos.com/whirling/

It more probably the british called those warrior "Dervish warrior" becouse they seen something who remember those dances ...

SirErnieMacGloop · Sep 01, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I am aware of the meanings of the swastika, all I was trying to point out was that to some its not a bad thing, and to others its just as bad as calling them racial names.

While I think the name Whirling Dervish is not necessarily derrogatory, I am willing to put myself in someone elses shoes for a sec and see how it might negatively effect their gaming experiance.

Oh, and monks are not the sole province of Christians, they go back much further than christianity.

I could see why someone could be offended by having a W/Mo paladin tearing up nightfall/northern Africa being called a Crusader, (not in game), but same kind of thing.

Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a sec, this personally doesn't bother me, but I can see, and try to show others, why it can be considered derrogatory.

Jetdoc · Sep 01, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrscoombes

They were known as whirling dervishes by the brits, whether this was a racial insult or not i don't know. My friend found it quite insulting however, when he saw a 'Whirling Dervish' on the premade builds.

Tell your friend that he must be insulted by Six Flags and Paramount Pictures, both of which have amusement parks with rides called the "Whirling Dervish". Methinks he's a bit misinformed.

http://www.sixflagshouston.com/rides/viewride.php?id=59

http://database.thrillnetwork.com/ride_view.php/4662

ChildeOfMalkav · Sep 01, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Yeah, I dont see how the term Whirling Dervish is derogatory. I'm familiar with the term and it doesnt have racially demeaning contexts, at least now. It could be a similar thing where native americans dont like being called indians or asians being called orientals. Not really racist terms but labels created from ignorance.

But I found that getting offended because your ancestors are in a game is ridiculous. It's not like Dervishes are being portrayed in a negative light compared to anyone else.

I'm all for stopping racism. It bothers me when people use racial slangs. But this is oversensitivity. There's nothing to get upset over here, I think it's just personal issues. And I dont mean that as a flame....we all have personal issues.

Cyprus · Sep 01, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Umm excuse me, but precisely what does that mean? So let me get this straight:
Whirling Dervish is a name given to his ancestor's people based on the way they fought.
Anet has a premade build called whirling dervish.
Your friend is offended because Anet "does not know what its like".
Huh?
This is hypersensitivity to the point of absurdity.
If I were Asian or Middle eastern I would be pleased to see that a gaming company has finally broken the mold and made an rpg which is not the typical European based role playing game.

milias · Sep 01, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Just for clarification, as far as I know, Whirling Dervishes aren't really fighters, they're dancers in the Ottoman Empire who try to get closer to their god through dancing.

Just recently saw a documentary on this.

Yes, I watch the History Channel

fallot · Sep 01, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

The word Dervish is not associated with any kind of warfare. Darvaish (the un-anglified term) literally means ascetic. Your friend is either totally misinformed about his own history, or you misunderstood him very badly.

Cherno · Sep 01, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I belive your "foreign" friend is being far too sensitive.

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 01, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

The whole Egyptian setting reminds me of how my ancestores were inslaved there! They don't know what its like to be slaves, do they?! They don't know what its like to be warriors, do they?! I do becuase my ancestores did that stuff 1,210 years ago! Yeah!

Do you have any idea how often I'm picked on for being a decendent of those slaves? I can associate with your friend on this one: not just crazy people have flashbacks of battles they were never in from hundreds of years before their birth.

smitty-gw · Sep 01, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

OMG, the ACLU's corruption has transcended into the pixilated world.

But I agree, Anet was being completely insensitive with the "Whirling Dervish" crack.

While we are at it, I also want Anet to remove "Gladiator" Armor sets. My uncle Joe, "Joe the Gladiator" was killed almost 2000 years ago and it still pains me to party with Glad armor wearing warriors. Don't they know how insensitive it is to us descendents of Gladiators?

To the OP, thanks for the intentionally trolled, sadly misinformed post.